Why ROAS Is Lying to You: With Google Ads Expert Thomas Eccel

Is ROAS telling you the truth—or quietly killing your profits? 

In this episode of Google Ads Unleashed, host Jeremy sits down with Google Ads expert Thomas Eccel to unpack why ROAS is often misleading and what smart advertisers should track instead. 

You’ll learn how Google Ads automation, margins, contribution profit, and business context matter more than vanity metrics—and why high ROAS doesn’t always mean real growth. 

Follow Thomas on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaseccel/

Contact Thomas: https://www.thomaseccel.com/?utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=Profile&utm_campaign=CTA&utm_term=googleadsstore

Get your free 30 minute strategy session with Jeremy here: https://www.younganddigital.marketing/

Scale your store with 1:1 coaching: https://www.younganddigital.marketing/1-2-1-coaching

Transcript

Welcome to Google Ads Unleashed, the podcast that helps you harness the power of Google Ads. And now, your host, Jeremy Young. Hello everyone and welcome back to Google Ads Unleashed. I hope everyone is doing fabulously this Monday. And to be honest, today I couldn't be more excited because I've been waiting for this for a very long time. And I'm not saying this to uh to make him feel uncomfortable and to uh blow smoke up his you know what. But actually I am very much looking forward to this because today's guest is possibly one of the most followed PPC voices worldwide. Has been ranked multiple times um as one of the top PPC influencers which not everyone can easily get to. He runs one of the biggest PPC newsletters and if anyone has ever been on LinkedIn and is in the Google Ads game, it would be a miracle if you haven't stumbled upon him. And this man is Thomas Eckle, welcome my friend. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks. Um, thanks a lot for being on your podcast. Uh, one of the hardest things is always to pronounce my surname. Uh, I guess only 1% pronounce it right. I I did it I did I do it correctly? No. No, but only 1% can do it correctly and those are I think just Italians from the north. Yeah, it's it's actually so the the biggest Uh the biggest misconception about my surname so many different pronunciations already in US they always say excel because it comes from Microsoft. You know what you you you put in fairness to my defense you've thrown me on on the wrong uh path as well because you told me you for obviously I know you speak German as well so I thought there's maybe maybe it's like a like a red herring you know like so and and also I'm surprised because it's not machiato, is it? It's makiato as well. But no, I'm not debating how exactly it's pronounced. Always when there is a H in between the C obviously then it's then it's like makat. I hope that's not the only thing I'll learn today. Some Italian classes also today. Very good. But yeah, thanks a lot Jeremy. I'm really happy to be on your podcast and yeah, looking forward to it. And thanks a lot for the for the nice intro words. Yeah, so it's been long overdue really. I've been trying to have a chat with you for for um quite quite a while obviously because of your high caliber. Um but yeah, I think what would be quite interesting is how do you actually get here? Uh you told me about this a couple of weeks ago. Um but I think you didn't well it was quite brief, right? So it would be really nice to see how did you slide into it because everyone slides into it, right? Like no one says, you know what, I want to do Google Ads one day. That's my jam. But you kind of land into it and yeah be nice. hear about your career and how you've made it to where you are today and what you're up to right now. Yeah. Um that's true. Like I think no one really says, "Yeah, I going to going to be a Google Ads expert once in my life." Also for me it was uh quite randomly I would say. Um and everything started somehow when I was doing my master studies in Madrid. Um I was uh I was studying business management but on the side I was also going for a community management course. in Madrid. So that was like twice a week and there it was the first time that I start I started being introduced to SEO search engine optimization and how Google works, how to rank on Google. So I started um with this community management course to um create my own blog. I wrote blog articles and my goal was always to see how can I put different keywords uh on Google to rank on the first page. When was this? If you don't mind me asking. Sorry. What what we're talking time time wise it was 2018 2018 okay so eight years ago more or less uh so that was the first time I got in touch with Google search it's about more sales specific and it was also I think the first time I heard about Google ads but we only touched it briefly and then uh once uh after my masters I did a internship at the Italian company called Dr. Share and I was in the corporate digital marketing uh department and there um there was one of my colleagues at the time who was really into Google ads and showed me the first time the platform and I was like yeah it looks looks quite cool and he told me like yeah this is a auction based system and here you can bid on keywords and that was the first time I was yeah I I would say being inside the platform and then uh out of nowhere when I almost finished my internship in Italy I got a a a LinkedIn message from a recruiter I was not active on LinkedIn at that time but recruiter told me, "Yeah, um, are you up to coming to Lisbon because we have a big client who is looking for German speaking, uh, agents who, um, are working in the digital marketing space, but we cannot tell you who you will be working for." So, was it the MI5 by any chance or kind of no um, and they said the it's a a big global player in the marketing field, but we cannot tell you who this a who this um client is. So I said yeah let me check. So she sent me over the contract and then somehow indirectly they told me yeah you will be working for Google. And I said ah Google yeah okay why not? So I I uh put my suitcase together. I looked for a flat and I traveled with 22 years to Lisbon. Uh my my parents were a bit scared because they didn't know where I was uh going towards. What's going to happen? Yeah. What's going happened. And yeah, so I left left Italy again because I was studying in Vienna before and Madrid and now I went to Lisbon. And I was um yeah, I was going there with my suitcase. And uh I think two days later when I arrived, I I went to one of the buildings. I didn't know if it was Google or not. And when I was outside of the building, it said Google. So I was like, "Okay, am I really working for Google?" I could really see the picture. You're just like walking somewhere. What the hell? Where am I? It's just a random probably. building somewhere. So then nothing. I I entered I got a batch and uh there were like four other people in the same batch as me. They started on the same day and we were in a room with a teacher and the teacher was starting telling us yeah you're going to be working for the Google ads support. So we I got thrown into the Google ads support and I didn't even know where I was be working uh for. So yeah um everything started um like one month of intense training of Google ads I started being live meaning I was a agent on the floor. It was called like this at Google. So I was starting to get calls, emails and chats from any agencies or business owner who is working with Google ads and have questions. Right? If you click on Google ads on the question mark and you go to support I was on the other side trying to help you with just one month of training and yeah and then every day you had to solve around 15 cases support cases and with every day I got better. I got better. I saw more stuff. I had internal help from Google. I had the internal Google which is called MoMA because Google has their own Google. So I was able to search in in in Google's own Google called Momma. So there's way more information also about Google ads internal docs that I needed to read. Uh yeah and then after three months I got promoted and I was working for the biggest DA agencies and biggest DH companies being the support agent for them. H yeah and then after eight months I said enough I never wanted to be in the support. Uh but I learned so much and there was a new been tiring as well at times and there was there was a new product opening. It was called Google Ads Optimization and I started optimizing for the biggest clients in Europe. Yeah. And that's how I I ended up in in Google Ads. And since there I've been working six, seven years every day in Google Ads. Yeah. That that is random. And you know what worries me a little bit but also explains a lot that you get one month training. Yeah. I got one month intense training and then for the big clients I got another full month of intense ministry. That's crazy. Well, the the good news is that obviously it breeds people like you, so that's that's fantastic. On the other hand, you probably know it yourself. Sometimes you get some right wallies. Um yeah, sometimes you get some questionable people um on there, but thankfully that wasn't one of you. Very interesting. So, you just came from the other side. What What is that like? Would you say that gives you like an bit bit of an advantage or do you feel like did you have to did you feel like you have had to almost like learn because of course as you know some of the core practices that Google I'm not hating against your former employer by the way but you know it yourself right like some of the standard suggestions or many of the standard suggestions are yeah you know I was I was um like in in my Google ads support uh job I was never being in touch with any strategies because I was just there to help technically I had to know inside and out the Google ads UI needed to be able to um to to re re like rebuild workflows that the client was doing because they just sent me screenshots. I needed to see how they they com they came up with this arrow with this buck. So it was very technical. I never had to touch any applied recommendations out of recommendation or strategies. I was not even allowed to talk about strategies. But then in the second part on the Google ads optimization team, it was um there were like standardized optimizations for example, keyword expansions that we all did manually. We never relied on any um any machine learning. We never relied on any um auto recommendation because at the end what we were doing was creating optimization by hand that the autolight recommendations were not being able to. So I I never I never had problems to ethical ethical problems to say everything that I say here it's just for Google and not for the advertiser because I was doing it myself manually. It was manual work. So yeah, I never had problems with that. Yeah. Different different times. It only started about then by the way. Sort of 2018. Well, 2018 was smart shopping I think was sort of the biggest step. Yeah, that was all 2019. Yeah. Where 2018 must have been around that time. I genuinely thought I'd lose my job then. I was like f****** myself and then it turns out it's it's totally fine. There's there's plenty to do still. So what happened after that? Obviously you've uh you left Google and then um you started to work like client side then or Yes. So um I was still at the time I was three and a half years in in Portugal and two and a half years about it was for Google and then the last year um when I was in Portugal I was working for Jungat um I was Jungat Switzerland it's like one of the big creative agencies in in the in the dark region and I was hired um as their first Google ads expert and I had the like the goal to create my own Google ads team within uh Yung Format, but I was remote. So, it was I was the first remote employee um ever at Yung Format Switzerland and uh yeah, I I had the goal to create to create more to get more clients in Google Ads um for Jung Format, manage them myself and once I reached a threshold of let's say 10 10 accounts where my um where my yeah bandwidth was over I hired uh other people and those people were all people that I knew from Google back from where I worked at the Google ads optimization team. So I took in all my all the good friends from optimization team where I knew they worked well and have a lot of knowledge. I I took into Yung format and they were working alongside me in Google in in Google ads in the Google ads team at Yung Format and yeah I I have been working I was working in Yung forat for four years. So at the end I was the head of Google Ads. Uh, did you manage did you manage to um So, so you mentioned something you had to actually win clients for the for the agency as well for for the Google Ads side of things. Yeah. Not actually I was not sales but um like every every client that was uh looking for Google ads, I was the one who who was taking care of this client. I was there. All right. Okay. I was not doing sales. No. Okay. I I was wondering whether that was like some sort of uh I don't know because typically Yung for Matt If I think of Young for Mat as like sort of more like really clever big campaigns if that makes sense, right? Big marketing sort of stunts and so on because that's what they're famous for. Super interesting. So true. Yeah. But I was really just for Google ads. Yeah. Um how did that evolve then with the the the LinkedIn side of things? Um because uh you must have thought at some point, you know what, makes sense to start posting about this sort of stuff. And well, But what a snowball it's been since then. Yeah. What a what a ride it has been. Yeah. How many followers do you have now, Thomas? Um well, combined I have 85,000 followers, but most of them are on LinkedIn. So almost 80,000 on LinkedIn now. 5,000 on YouTube also. Um so yeah, my focus is now growing YouTube a bit more. That is some mental stuff. Wow. Amazing. So um did that happen around that time then as well or what what was the crack? Well, LinkedIn Obviously, you can you can grow LinkedIn um not from one day to another. So, it's a very longterm growth. So, I started I think four years ago together with Adrian Decker, Miles McNair and any other Adrian's been on here as well. I speak to him regularly. He's a very very nice man actually. Yeah. Yeah. I met him many times. Uh yeah. And uh yeah, at that time um I was working at Jung for Mat and then I saw on LinkedIn a post from Miles that He opened like a PPC hub on Discord um where there were like a community for PPCers. I didn't know Miles uh but I said I just saw the link and I said okay let's I go to Discord now. I didn't even know Discord and I uh yeah entered there and I saw oh wow there were like 300 PPC specialists. I didn't even know that so many existed you know like it was like I never had contact with a lot of PPC experts before. So I was like ah really cool. So here we can talk about support and here we can talk talk about strategies and uh since I'm I was coming from Google on the technical side I had a lot of knowledge to share and a lot of tips and tricks I could give everything because I knew the internal side so that gave me advantage obviously so nothing I was like uh in this discord group getting to know any other BBC expert that is now also on LinkedIn and uh yeah people were starting to share stuff on on on LinkedIn as posts and I said yeah me too I I I also want to share I have a lot to share and that could benefit other PPC experts and I started sharing sharing and then yeah every year I got more more followers like probably the first year I got 10,000 followers then the second year 30,000 more and then the other year 30 again more uh so yeah it it has been a like a steady growth on LinkedIn and yeah when I look back I think I have been working really consistently every day I post since I think the last two years I didn't miss one day so obviously consistency mindset is really important there yeah obviously um yeah yeah so um that takes a lot of obviously content right um how do you find sort of um that all of that information is it like has it gotten to a stage where people like sort of make you aware of this or you sort of do you browse the internet how do you stay up to date because partially that's why I started this part as well right naturally we've um we've quite frankly of course won business through it right it's uh for for it but for me it's like just a lot of fun as well just to talk about it to broaden my horizon to get to know very interesting people like yourself um but of course it's hard for me as well to stay up to date like for instance you you of course are a source of um staying up to date how hard is it to always be at the forefront of all of this like how you sort of get your information together. Also was really interesting, how do you sort of um what's your process if at all to judge what's either BS or um how do you sort of because sometimes it can be like not an opinion but of course certain biases go into that as well, right? Mhm. Yeah. So um yeah, in general um I think my mind is optimized a lot now towards any changes that I see in the Google Ads UI. Um, so that's like one of the first things when when there's something new and I'm in in Google Ads every day since six years. So I know every change more or less I can even have the time frame when the change was. So I know more or less actively manage clients then as well like in a capacity. Yeah. Okay. I'm working at profit metrics um um now. So there I don't manage clients. I only consult the clients for POS. But then on the on the side I have my my company um like where I also manage clients but they those are always clients that are not with profit message I can you have to pitch both at the end by the way how people can get in touch with you if they require your services at all don't forget to say that yeah okay carry on sorry yeah exactly so I I I trained my mind on that I would say so everything that is new I see directly so usually it comes um from me being in the Google ads account and seeing something new then I I first check if it's a big a big change or not because I'm doing one post a day. So I need to get my 100 followers a day or 80 followers a day to have a steady growth. So the post needs to be useful, needs to be valuable and not just a little update that nobody cares about. So I value I value if this update is worth sharing and if not then I will need to find uh any other content that I have in mind as an as a post idea. Uh but Usually um I find the news myself. So usually then I get I I get featured in search engine land. I get featured in any other all the newsletter of Yoan of Adrian of Hana whatever. So if I find it myself it's obviously a big a bigger exposure but I also scroll on LinkedIn and I see any other news that is popping up from um from other PPC experts and then I credit them in my post. But I will also create one post myself then. Um, and uh, yeah, and then also obviously reading Google blog posts, um, scrolling sometimes through Instagram to see some content ideas if I need. Uh, but yeah, I I never had any struggles with not finding a content. So, that has been going on. I think I did now over 1,000 posts in 360 posts a year. So, uh, when you put it together like Yeah. over 1,000 posts and I never It never got boring. So I think also a bit of passion is obviously there for googlets. Of course. Yeah. Well, the thing is um because a lot of people do struggle to keep up to date, right? I'm not sure if it's a lack of drive or lack of uh self um how should I say um self yeah drive I suppose or self-efficacy, right? Uh so it's it's it's kind of tough uh for them and of course but the good thing is you of course actively manage accounts as well. So is are these more like sort of What's your kind of sort of favorite um uh are you more towards e-commerce or is lead genen more a jam? Probably more e-commerce with profit metrics I'd imagine as well. Yes. Before when I was in the agency I I had both lead genen and ecom and now with profit metrics I really specialize in ecom. So I think right now I'm really into ecom. Um I think there is so much more potential also for for manual optimization than on lichen. So right now I would say I yeah I'm getting really uh deep into ecom. Yeah. But before I was doing lead gen and ecom. So given that you've got such a track record of noticing changes and how the platform changed, how um the the whole company Google itself has changed. What's sort of your prediction where the trajectory is heading in 2026? What kind of skills would you say are making our jobs the most valuable to clients? And sort of um and also what actually grows accounts nowadays. Yeah. So I think um we we should be able to adopt AI in some parts of our Google ads job for example um for search terms scrubbing for um I don't know testing creative hooks and angles for example that's something that we can optimize we can also optimize for um I don't know creating Google ads audits for example with market fact I'm doing it with a a platform that really helps me to do audits um to get the first uh picture but then I think it's it's important to keep AI as your assistant but not let AI take over. So for example um any budget decisions um or any communication with client I think that's still on our side we have to really be careful with that I think communication with client is one of the biggest parts that um you in 2026 you still can do a big impact, right? Because if you want to re retain the client, if you want to get new clients, I think communication um as human is really important. Uh but in general, I think obviously Google ads is heading towards a more automated system. Um we see it with demand genen. We see like now the for example demanding campaigns can create videos out of your uh image ads. We see pmax getting completely optimized. But Google still Google is giving us a lot of control. back. That's also something we saw last year. So suddenly now we can exclude audiences again on campaign level. We can have search um we can have keyword exclusions. We can have gender exclusion. We have demographic exclusions. So I think it's a it's a signal that Google says okay we automize but you are more in control now than last year. Um and that I think that's uh that's giving me also like a bit more um yeah it's also positive sign towards BBC exp. that we're still there. We're still not just the coach outside of the pitch, but we are still the coach and the player, right? So, we are still on the pitch playing in the Google Ads game. Um even if Google is automizing everything. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think that's where it's going as well. Just be um because um well um for at least for the near future, I don't know what's going to happen in five years to be honest. I'm not even worried about what's in five years because I always see a lot of people even like how do you prepare for uh AI uh first search and so on like a lot of clients ask me and say I don't f****** know genuinely don't know because no one knows right so why worry about something you can't control anyway and that's why I think I think you just have to try and adopt it as best as possible for um um as a tool right to do certain tasks faster we find for instance it helps us a lot with uh client research like audience research So for that it's absolutely insane. Um it's amazing for um sort of bouncing out CRO recommendations for instance depending on the on the prompts of course. Um any ideas for angles in headlines and descriptions and so on but the human element still is there. It's just simply not not quite there. The uncanny valley is still there. You could just detect you can tell AI written text straight away for instance. Right. So um We still have our job, right? Yeah, of course. What What are sort of things that you use it for? Some things where you would uh other you mentioned client communication where you wouldn't let it handle um stuff whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think because you've built your own uh PPC GPT as well, by the way. I have I have installed that, but I let you tell tell us about what what it does. Yeah. So, um I I built the GBT back when um when Open eye released the GBT store. So I was one of the first in uh November 2023. So yeah um already some years ago now. Um and uh I was annoyed by using chat GBT uh for getting headline ideas for descriptions ideas for RSAs or PMAX because I always had to type in okay please remember headlines are have 30 characters including spaces description 90 long headlines 90 and so on and I was annoyed by that. So my idea was clear I going to build a GBT. It was first for me and and I I tell the GBT I construct the GBT that my headline should be 30 and if I text you please write me a headline for the client X please write me a headline that you know it's 30 characters including spaces max. So that was the first idea that I had. So I said okay I going to construct this GBD and if it makes a mistake I will tell the GBT again. You have to be sure that the character limit is never exceeding what I what Google ads uh allows nothing. Then I um yeah I started it I I used it for myself and then I was like hm but maybe I should feed it with more information. Um it's also just like information that I have in mind and then open it for my community. I think at that time probably I had around 30 40,000 followers. Um so the half that I have now uh but still I knew that if I post about it, I think many would use it. And uh yeah, I I checked in the GBT store and I saw that it was ranking number one on a keyword like PPC. So I knew, okay, this is going to be good because if more people will discover the GBT store and they put G PC inside, I'm going to be there. So yeah, I started sharing it um for my community. I posted also content around it to get it uh to get it in the in the head of every one and yeah and then more people used it more people used it and it got better and better and you can also rate it and yeah I think it's one of the best rated and biggest PBC D PBDs out there now uh I think we will be close now reaching 100,000 chats um so yeah it's a massive machine and yeah obviously now it can way can make way more and I still use it every day if I have something related with Google ads I go inside my GBT because it's programmed for it yeah So you use it obviously for for for those what you mentioned client coms definitely do not uh do well where else could AI be helpful you think especially in this year I've got by the way two more questions of grillin and then uh we'll be landing this plane shortly what do you think is going to be the next really big massive change that we will see with with air obviously the usage of it is very important in some areas It's completely overused, sometimes even useless. Right? For quick audits, it's fine. I done an in-depth audit for a client that returned after a year and a half yesterday. No AI could have solved what the actual issue was with them, right? It needed a human. But what do you think is going to be the next big barrier that's going to be broken where Yeah, that's that's also a good question. And always when Google or Open AI launched a new AI tool, I was like, "Oh, wow. I I never thought about it. So it was al like a surprising moment but um I think we are moving very fast in the video and image AI creation. Um and Google is integrating those also now in product studio merchant center nano banana pro for pmax campaigns inside the asset studio or the man campaigns. So I think um we we will not have like a massive uh new AI tool but I think we will have all these AI tools that Gemini has. produced over the last month um optimized and being more perfect than they are right now. I've seen for example just yesterday um a stunning image from Nano Banana Pro of a girl like zoomed in um and you can see like every part of the skin. So it's like they they can you can now really um create AI pictures and videos. Um that I think what really freaks me out is almost the perfect perfection if that makes sense. Exactly. Like it's it's not even like sort of smooth anymore. And even the jump within a month, a few months only has been absolutely scary. Yeah. True. And and I think the big the big update that that I'm still waiting is obviously to to get V3 inside Google Ads because we only have Nano Banana Pro for image, but we are lacking a big nice video AI tool for Google Ads. So I think this is going to be the next big thing uh that we will have. because uh yeah since we are also moving um always more a bit towards demand gen campaigns which Google is pushing a lot I think Google ad specialists um they have to learn more graphic design skills um we don't need to have for example now um yeah skills in Adobe Photoshop because we have AI nice AI tools like Nano Banana V3 in order to create creatives also for for our clients um so I think Our role is also changing a bit towards being also uh we should also deliver creatives for clients because we usually know which which creative works and we have this information that usually the client don't have and I think Google will facilitate us all these tools in inside Google ads for free like nano banana pro and hopefully ve also um in order for for us also be being able to create creatives for our clients and not just manage Google ads account because I think that time is over. That was like 2019 where we were just looking at the UI uh Google ads and steering with max CPCs or CPC. We are think we have now a a more comprehensive bigger picture role and we are not just here to steer campaigns. We also have to look at campaign objectives, business goal of clients. We have to work outside of Google ads. We have to uh see seasonalities. We need to know the margins. We need to know when to push, when to break that spend. And we need also to know um how to create creatives when when the client needs it. Yeah, you know what that you almost you pretty much answer what would have been my next question. What do we have to be good at? Uh now and pretty much it's exactly that, right? We have to more or less become co-pilots of the business and use Google as the tool to achieve whatever the business goal is of our clients, right? And um uh and not find the efficiencies in pause this uh keyword or add this search to as a negative or um test I don't know uh target a target target this target CPA versus the other god knows what right you won't find the efficiencies there anymore I genuinely think it actually goes to the degree that we are thinking of hiring a creative strategist next right uh because um I have I'm of the same opinion I think that's where the trajectory is going for two reasons I'm seeing now at the end of January we have having um quite well overall the results have been quite good in the in fact really good in the agency but something worrying I'm seeing everywhere is that general search demand over the last I'd say year maybe also postco of course has been generally declining of course one could point at chat Gvt or whatever as that is where people to go to search partially that's true maybe a few percentage points but I think there is not a big abandonment but But I think people are just discovering products more differently. And when you also look at YouTube revenue over the last couple of years, especially since like 2018, it's just been like a crazy uh curve upwards. So naturally, you would think Google will do everything to facilitate us to move the spend to a platform which they've historically been really poor at monetizing, right? Because everyone knows YouTube ads don't work, right? Like that's what a lot of people are saying. Of course, they do work, but you have to know how to make them work and you have to have great creative and you have to know how to measure its impact, right? Yeah. Um, so I I'm not I'm absolutely convinced that that's where it's going to go. Um, mega interesting. Maybe I'm going to ask it anyway. What makes a good Google Ads expert in 2026? Uh, a good Google Ads expert. Um, well, I think a Google Google Ads expert is good if he or she has a lot of experience already because Google ads is about experience. You need to know how the campaigns behave once you uh click the button, once you change the targets, when you change the location, when you um when you I don't know make a Hagakura um uh campaign restructurement. So you you need to have obviously experience for what you're doing because it's um you need to know how it behaves and if it behaves wrongly, you need to know how to counteract. So I think obviously experience is is very important. U but I think a Google ads expert in 2026 really um should not live only inside the Google ads account. It should uh live like on the business goals and uh on any other uh data that the client can facilitate him or her. Um so I think it's really important to look outside of the window and uh counteract on specific seasonal uh changes uh margins as I said before and look not just on specific metrics like traditional metrics like CPA or ROAS but have in mind that the ROAS is not giving you always the truth it's it's not uh it's just comparing how much revenue you made with your ad spend but go more towards contribution margin and post biddings um because then you really can make money and steer the algorithm towards um profit um which I think the end is the the most interesting for the business owner and yeah I think a Google a good Google ads expert should um should not rely on nice high ROAS but uh should be um should be facing the truth and knowing that at the end the ROAS is not uh bringing your your client money because only only profit is so revenue is not the main KPI I think I think and I think that's a great one to finish on I think that was brilliant thank you so much for that and I think uh insightful as well to see where hard work gets you what um to to a certain you know to where you are now and obviously what it takes to just uh stay ahead in the game right uh how much it takes as well because what you all just mentioned is you know there'd be a few people listening who are like holy s*** I've just started my you know uh uh venture from my bedroom and there's so much to know in this platform and there's so much to learn that there's still a place for us for a very long time and that's great. How can people get in touch with you if they um you know have maybe we even got I know for a fact listeners with with quite substantial budgets as well. So how can they get in touch with you also if they're interested in adopting profit metrics something I've been harping about for f****** ages on the pod that every business that has many products different margins or complicated carts must have it really. they want to use Google Ads efficiently, how can they get in touch with you? Yeah. Um I obviously on on LinkedIn, I think that's harder um because I don't uh uh there are so many connection requests that I might lose it. But if you make a connection request with a a message on it that you're from the podcast, then I will see it. If not, um yeah, I have my own website.com. It's a a shop for Google Ads resources. Not echoed, by the way, with this establish that the beginning. Yeah, exactly. There there you can get in in touch with me on the website. Um and yeah, I also have YouTube um my YouTube channel which I started last year and yeah also on LinkedIn I have the newsletter but in getting in touch I think the easiest is on is on my website.com. Super perfect. Thank you so much. Well, thanks very much for joining. This has been super insightful. Um as always guys, if you want to also get in touch with me more, you you know for the the jam. Same thing either on LinkedIn or via the website young and digital marketing and uh go and give uh Thomas a follow. He shares the best stuff and basically I got the little um what's it called? The the the thing notification the bell. That's the one. You always pop up every single day. Oh, really? Yeah, you do. Thanks, guys. I hope I'm not annoying now. No, absolutely not. This has been Google Ads Unleash, guys. Thank you very much for Bye-bye.